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post #1 of 21 Old 07-24-2018, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Motor runs fine, moves slowly

Motor is running fine now after I stupidly ran out of diesel and had to bleed the air out. On the next run, I noticed that it didn't seem to have quite as much acceleration. This was a very subtle feeling. Then later, it wouldn't go up a small terrace and that is not subtle! It's like a transmission problem or something to do with the drive train. I first thought it was just low on transaxle oil but added some but that did not help at all.

It's weird that this happened right after running out of diesel. Beats me! I had a friend helping me and we couldn't figure out how to bleed the air and he was all over that motor doing this and that. We finally figured out how to do it but I wonder if he poked something wrong that caused THIS problem, lol. Or, is it just coindence. Any ideas why this thing won't go?

Last edited by livemusic; 07-24-2018 at 09:25 PM.
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 08:23 AM
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Did you bleed all 3 injectors?

Since you and your friend were "poking around", we'd need to have psychic abilities to figure out root cause.

When diesels are down on power it is typically related to fuel delivery. Known clean fuel, Unrestricted fuel flow to filter housing, unrestricted fuel filter, functioning fuel pumps, no air in the system, etc...

When bleeding air from injectors they need to be cracked open and engine allowed to run until fuel comes out in a consistent manor before tightening.

Good luck and report back your findings.

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post #3 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200mph View Post
Did you bleed all 3 injectors?

Since you and your friend were "poking around", we'd need to have psychic abilities to figure out root cause.

When diesels are down on power it is typically related to fuel delivery. Known clean fuel, Unrestricted fuel flow to filter housing, unrestricted fuel filter, functioning fuel pumps, no air in the system, etc...

When bleeding air from injectors they need to be cracked open and engine allowed to run until fuel comes out in a consistent manor before tightening.

Good luck and report back your findings.
This has NOTHING to do with the motor, I stated that it is running just fine. The only mention of bleeding the air was to set forth that this no acceleration problem showed up just after bleeding the air out to fix that problem. Without a doubt, it is a drive train problem. It will move forward, but will not accelerate well, and it will not pull a grade.

I wonder about the main drive belt. It looks fine to me but wonder if it has become 'stretched.' I have no idea how old it it. I bought this 2009 850d 2-3 years ago and who knows, it might be the original belt.

Anyone got any ideas about drive train problems this could be? Belt, clutch, transmission, etc.


EDIT: Anyone know the specs on the main drive belt? Someone told me there is a spec for how wide it should be and if it's slightly worn from that, it could slip. It looks okay just eyeballing it but I might to put a caliper on it. I hope I can get some help to get some ideas on this, as just simply replacing the belt as a "maybe" diagnosis will cost $70 for the belt alone.

Last edited by livemusic; 07-25-2018 at 09:23 AM.
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 09:24 AM
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Check the width of the belt. There is a minimum specification. They narrow due to wear.

You could try watching the primary and secondary while under power, but this requires removing the plastic housing and raising the bed. Caution is needed when doing so, but it can give you a visual clue as to what is happening. Could try this first on jack stands to verify complete belt travel. If complete travel is achieved on the jack stands (no load) proceed to the flat land, but use extreme caution. Very unlikely its an internal transmission problem judging by your comments.

Curious how are you judging engine runs fine if it can't accelerate? Low power will prevent it from accelerating. Diesels get there power by controlling fuel flow and behave differently than gas engines. Poor fuel flow will restrict hp and prevent it from delivering the desired performance. Typically a miss or other gas like symptoms are not noticed, just a loss of power.

Wish you success in fixing your Gator.

2012 JD855D OPS Black Poly Roof, Deluxe Cargo Box, Front and Rear Protection, Power Lift, Front Hood Rack, Rear Screen (homemade), 800 Watt Inverter, 2500lb Winch installed in cargo bed, Front and Rear LED auxiliary lighting (4" square 27 watt), Front and Rear CV Guards, Koplin Side Mirrors
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200mph View Post
Check the width of the belt. There is a minimum specification. They narrow due to wear.

You could try watching the primary and secondary while under power, but this requires removing the plastic housing and raising the bed. Caution is needed when doing so, but it can give you a visual clue as to what is happening. Could try this first on jack stands to verify complete belt travel. If complete travel is achieved on the jack stands (no load) proceed to the flat land, but use extreme caution. Very unlikely its an internal transmission problem judging by your comments.

Curious how are you judging engine runs fine if it can't accelerate? Low power will prevent it from accelerating. Diesels get there power by controlling fuel flow and behave differently than gas engines. Poor fuel flow will restrict hp and prevent it from delivering the desired performance. Typically a miss or other gas like symptoms are not noticed, just a loss of power.

Wish you success in fixing your Gator.

When operating this Gator now, the motor revs just like it always did. And you can be moving forward just fine, but get to a steep enough grade, and it will slow down and eventually even stop, not able to move up the grade at all. I can't see how it's anything other than a drivetrain issue.
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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The main drive belt looks fine. I wonder if it could still be "bad?"


I figure it could also be the clutch. I wonder if it has one or two? This old thread is about a model other than my 850d -- XUV 620i Won't Pull Hills - Page 2


...mentions that the 620i model has a rear and a forward clutch. Anyone know if my 850d has one or two?


That thread also mentions that his similar problem ended up being a ground speed sensor. Anyone know if the 850d has one of those?


And the codes they mention in those threads, where/how do they read that? Is this available on the 2009 850d?
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 02:24 PM
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Motor runs fine, moves slowly

The part number for the belt should be in the owners manual. From there go to a online Parts source such as Green Part Store look up belt by part number, the specifications on the belt will be listed.

Your Gator has two clutches, a primary and secondary.

By merely looking at a belt you can not really determine the condition, unless there are chunks missing, glazing or cracks on the surface.

Owners Manual ( may or may not match your year model?)
http://manuals.deere.com/cceomview/O...dex.html?tM=HO

You may also seek out Technical Service Manual for your Gator? Try EBay?

Best of luck

2012 Gator 825i (new engine at 1700 hours) Power Steering-Sport Exhaust- Deluxe Cab-Heater- Work Lights On Top Front And Rear- Hella HID Driving Lights-Warn ProVantage 4500 synthetic winch-Electric Dump- Gillmore Seat Covers

Last edited by Bradhill; 07-25-2018 at 02:30 PM.
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Has anyone ever heard of a belt slipping when it looks otherwise in fine shape? I don't see a thing wrong with this belt. I asked a local shade tree mechanic if you can tighten this main belt and he said no, can't be tightened. Sound right?

This local guy knows golf carts and tractors pretty good. He said this main belt cannot be worn in its width or it won't work. Said width is crucial. It looks fine to me but I'll put a caliper on it. Specs for the belt say it is 1.26" width.

EDIT: I put caliper on drive belt and it is 1.209" and spec says 1.26". You think this could be problem? The belt seats into the main pulley. The local guy inferred that it has to seat "tight." That's only 5 hundredths of an inch, wonder if it matters or even if manufacturing differences could account for that.

I called the dealership and got through to service and the guy said sounds like clutch. Mentioned a possible spring failure. But then suggested put a new belt on first. Heck, that's $70 + labor down the tubes if that's not it.

Now I wonder if I could disassemble the clutch easy enough to check it out. Zero experience working on this thing.

Last edited by livemusic; 07-25-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 05:05 PM
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When bleeding the injectors could you have gotten fuel or fuel spray on the belt or clutches? I'd be tempted to hose the belt and clutch faces with some brake cleaner and see if it makes a difference.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-25-2018, 06:17 PM
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Pull the belt and make certain the sides are not contaminated or glazed and while you're at it look at the surfaces of the pulley. Based on your measurements above it looks like the belt is worn approximately 0.060" but still is above the minimum specification.

While people refer to these as clutches they are technically continuous variable transmissions and works on centrifugal force to drive the primary pulleys together, thus engaging the belt. Anything that would reduce the forces between the belt and pulley will cause it to slip. There are three major components: Primary, Secondary and belt.

You'll likely find the manual very helpful in your quest to fix yourself and help save money in the long run.

Some of the forum vendors might have the belt a bit cheaper than what you've quoted.

So when going up hill your engine RPMS are at max and the gator crawls to a stop?

Although the belt is expensive, it could help you troubleshot your issue. They are considered wear items and you can always save the existing one as a spare.

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post #11 of 21 Old 07-26-2018, 06:59 AM
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Motor runs fine, moves slowly

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200mph View Post
Pull the belt and make certain the sides are not contaminated or glazed and while you're at it look at the surfaces of the pulley. Based on your measurements above it looks like the belt is worn approximately 0.060" but still is above the minimum specification......
........Although the belt is expensive, it could help you troubleshot your issue. They are considered wear items and you can always save the existing one as a spare.

To add to @200mph comments.. Even a new belt can be “glazed” once this happens the belt is toast.

Glazing typically happens from the belt slipping, this occurs while using high gear while the Gator should be operated in low gear such climbing hills or starting out while the Gator is in a rut, incline, going over rocks, trees , mud etc.

From the OP’s comments the Gator lost power while going uphill. The likely culprit was the belt slipping, which means the belt was glazed.

Clean the sheaves on both clutches which brake cleaner like @dane mentioned, while using the brake cleaner scrub the sheave surface with “scotch-brite” at a 90 degree angle.

Finally replace the belt .....there has been some great advise from very knowledgeable and experienced Gator owners on this forum-what you do with it is your choice.

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Last edited by Bradhill; 07-26-2018 at 07:02 AM.
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-26-2018, 08:16 AM
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Check out Sixity Powersports - they sell Gates and Dayco which are old line American companies. The Gates belt which I'm buying is just under $60 with free shipping. The owner's manual shows how to change the belt so you should be fine. Good luck. Craig
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-26-2018, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Check out Sixity Powersports - they sell Gates and Dayco which are old line American companies. The Gates belt which I'm buying is just under $60 with free shipping. The owner's manual shows how to change the belt so you should be fine. Good luck. Craig
Thanks for that, got a belt for $40! Hopefully, it's a proper match to John Deere brand.
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-26-2018, 12:11 PM
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've got a similar (but somewhat different) issue.

My JD Gator is a 4x2 Trail Gator with the 10 HP gas Kawasaki engine. About 18 years old with about 4,500 hours. At about 2,500 hours, had JD dealer replace clutch and drive belt due to sluggish performance, which fixed that issue. At about 3,500 hours, I started hearing continuous squeaking from belt area when moving - but no performance issues so didn't worry about it. Now at about 4,500 hours, I have noticeable 'jerking' when pulling a steep grade. Also, when starting from a stop, engine has to be reved up a bit before it starts moving and when it does catch and starts moving, it about gives me whiplash. Question: Is it likely needing another clutch replacement, or just a new drive belt? Tips to diagnose would be appreciated. I can handle belt replacement myself, but not a clutch replacement. Thinking I may buy a belt and try it, then take it into dealer for a clutch if that doesn't fix the issue. Thanks...
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-26-2018, 12:35 PM
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Motor runs fine, moves slowly

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88goldwing View Post
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've got a similar (but somewhat different) issue.



My JD Gator is a 4x2 Trail Gator with the 10 HP gas Kawasaki engine. About 18 years old with about 4,500 hours. At about 2,500 hours, had JD dealer replace clutch and drive belt due to sluggish performance, which fixed that issue. At about 3,500 hours, I started hearing continuous squeaking from belt area when moving - but no performance issues so didn't worry about it. Now at about 4,500 hours, I have noticeable 'jerking' when pulling a steep grade. Also, when starting from a stop, engine has to be reved up a bit before it starts moving and when it does catch and starts moving, it about gives me whiplash. Question: Is it likely needing another clutch replacement, or just a new drive belt? Tips to diagnose would be appreciated. I can handle belt replacement myself, but not a clutch replacement. Thinking I may buy a belt and try it, then take it into dealer for a clutch if that doesn't fix the issue. Thanks...


Try cleaning the clutches with compressed air, actually this should be done yearly. See owners manual link below for instruction on cleaning and replacing belt.

Also scrub down the sheaves using brake cleaner and scotch-brite pads at a 90 degree angle to remove grime and grit from the surface. You might also squirt brake cleaner into the clutch to help remove oily grime. Then blow the clutches out throughly . This will help dramatically with the operation of the clutch.

Never use any belt dressing or lubricant in the clutches, they are meant to be operated dry.

If you have 2000 hours on the belt, it is time to replace the belt. Before installing a new belt scrub the belt with hot soapy water (Dawn) to remove molding agents used in the manufacturing process. This will increase longevity and improve shifting.

Good luck

Owners Manual Link

http://manuals.deere.com/cceomview/O...put/Index.html

2012 Gator 825i (new engine at 1700 hours) Power Steering-Sport Exhaust- Deluxe Cab-Heater- Work Lights On Top Front And Rear- Hella HID Driving Lights-Warn ProVantage 4500 synthetic winch-Electric Dump- Gillmore Seat Covers

Last edited by Bradhill; 07-26-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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