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post #1 of 96 Old 06-22-2015, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Clutch Tuning

If you've read the forum for a while you've probably seen member MBDiagMan offer his clutch tuning services. I took him up on it and sent my clutch to him. I got it back last week and WOW! what a improvement. This is the best a clutch has ever worked. It works better than a "good" clutch fresh from the dealer.

I have not had a single instance yet where the clutch did not open as it should. Previously hot days and getting the clutch hot would cause problems. I gave it every torture I could this weekend and every time I stopped the clutch disengaged perfectly.

A benefit I did not expect is that it shifts more smoothly. I never thought I would be able to feel it but it does noticeably shift/transition more smoothly than before. Previously when accelerating I could feel that the clutch was balking as it up and downshifted. Now it's a continuous, butter smooth progression when accelerating and decelerating.

Aside from the clutch operating properly. It is just more predictable. After driving it a while I know exactly when it's going to engage and disengage. Previously there a range of where I thought it would do something. Now it does it like clockwork at the same rpm every time. It's doubly amazing considering how hot I got it and it still is predictable and reliable.
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post #2 of 96 Old 06-22-2015, 03:09 PM
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sounds great!!! if we (the members) keep going we will all be our own aftermarket vendors haha. Doc with the clutches and we have Josh with a small 2in lift and climber is also working on his own design when he has time haha. before long we can all use each other for things instead of begging companies to do it for us.

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post #3 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 07:14 AM
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I am VERY pleased that it is working well for you Dane!

I have worked with these clutches enough now, I have gained a very high level of confidence that I can set them up to work properly. These were designed for snowmobiles, not for warm weather use. It is a mass produced item, so I expect that it is not economically feasible for the manufacturer to hand fit and polish the portions of the clutch that really need it, especially for a warm climate.

I believe that this is the reason that the clutches on some Gator models are sometimes the Achilles heel of the whole vehicle.

In a very few operating hours after buying my new 825i, the clutch failed. They put one in under warranty and asked if I had been pulling anything heavy or driving it hard, which I had not. Just as the warranty expired, the replacement clutch failed, so it was time for me to tear in there and get to the bottom of it. I spent way more money and time on tooling than it would have taken to buy a supply of clutches, but I made mine work well and learned a ton from doing it. The first clutch I did is still in my personal Gator and still working well in all conditions.

I then came up with a few bad clutches to work with and figured out the best approach and learned what it takes to make them right. It is not a quick process, and not something you can easily tell someone how to do.

It takes a good bit of tooling just to be able to get these clutches apart and back together properly without doing any damage. Once apart, it is a good bit of hand work to make them fit properly such that the clutch works freely, but is not noisy.

I am very pleased that I have figured out how to do this. Not only to have my own Gator reliable, but also being able to cure headaches for others. Once these are out of warranty, if they give shifting trouble, I can with confidence make your clutch reliable.



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Gator 825i
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post #4 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Yea, I'm on clutch number three. The first one stuck and caused shifting problems and was replaced under warranty. The second, improved clutch also started sticking and caused shifting problems before I did the engine swap. Then the new, aftermarket clutch started sticking almost immediately and progressively got worse. That's not a very good track record.

I had to do a bit of work with the Gator yesterday during the heat of the day. I grinned every time I come to a stop and heard that little click as the clutch disengaged.
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post #5 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 11:05 AM
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How hard is it to remove from an 825i? I know I need the special tool but wondering on tools, space, etc.

Al

2013 825i - OG&B, Black Alloy Wheels w/ Maxxis Bighorn Tires * Mid range lights (front and rear) * Superwinch Terra 45 winch * , marine rear view mirror * Gilmorecammo seat covers * Koplin Rhino Grips * Seizmik mirrors
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post #6 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 12:22 PM
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Bunky,

Are you asking about tools necessary only for clutch removal, or also about tools necessary for clutch disassembly and service?



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post #7 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 12:28 PM
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I am looking to just remove the clutch and then later to install it.

I know the shroud comes off and there is a puller tool to pop off tapered shaft(?) but not sure the rest of the complexity. Beyond the puller, any other things like snap rings, etc. I have a limited set of basic tools (metric available) where my Gator is.

I am not taking the clutch apart.

Al

2013 825i - OG&B, Black Alloy Wheels w/ Maxxis Bighorn Tires * Mid range lights (front and rear) * Superwinch Terra 45 winch * , marine rear view mirror * Gilmorecammo seat covers * Koplin Rhino Grips * Seizmik mirrors
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post #8 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 02:07 PM
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You pretty well outlined it. Remove the cover, remove the center rwtainer bolt, thread in the tool and turn until it pops loose. Be ready to catch the clutch, then just peel the belt off and lift it out. Installation is reverse of removal, using the retainer bolt to draw it in place.

Hope this helps



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Gator 825i
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post #9 of 96 Old 06-23-2015, 07:36 PM
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I just reviewed the tech ref and the references have different steps for different aspects.

It states:
1. Remove left rear shock - is this really necessary?
2. remove clutch housing - lots of bolts
3. remove fan bolt
4. Install the clutch tool in fan bolt hole - mentions greasing threads to prevent damage to output shaft or tool
5. Tighten tool until the clutch pops off (catch it) then remove belt

To install

1. center everything back on then tighten
2. install belt and roll on to driven clutch
3. install housing

Al

2013 825i - OG&B, Black Alloy Wheels w/ Maxxis Bighorn Tires * Mid range lights (front and rear) * Superwinch Terra 45 winch * , marine rear view mirror * Gilmorecammo seat covers * Koplin Rhino Grips * Seizmik mirrors
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post #10 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 03:28 AM
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I didn't have to remove a shock on my 825i. Maybe if you did, it would be easier access, but it was doable on mine without removing the shock.

I am thinking the shock removal might be necessary on a different model.

Hop this helps.



Doc the Clutch Man

Gator 825i
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post #11 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 06:35 AM
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Hello all:

Very good information on the Gator clutching!

I have been spending considerable time doing some research on the gator clutching system for the year 2012 and prior as well as 2013 to present. It is mind boggling that John Deere and Team Industries would conspire to withhold technical information from gator owners but, through the confidentiality agreement that is exactly what has happened.

If you contact Team Aftermarket about a gator, they will tell you they have no parts for them what-so-ever. I had this experience just this past Monday. However, through research I have discovered some interesting and helpful facts.
First, if you watched the Team video on You Tube where they install a primary clutch in a 2012 gator and achieve 50 MPH, that primary is the new
Rapid Response that is used in the 2013 and newer models. That primary can be purchased through "Green Parts" for $308.00

Second, the secondary clutch in the 2012 and prior model years is identical the the 2011-2012 Polaris RZR 800. It is the non EBS secondary, and does not contain a Helix. The good news is, with the new primary and by using the tight belt from the 2013 model, you eliminate free wheeling. You can also purchase a stiffer secondary spring, ask for the Polaris spring when inquiring, and increase back shifting. If you use a one-way roller in the primary, tight belt and add back shifting, you have a level of EBS that far exceeds what the factory set up offers. When shopping for a secondary spring, search Team
Aftermarket under the 2011 Polaris RZR 800 and you will find the springs listed. They run $25 each. I will have my gator set up with these changes in a couple of weeks and will check back with results and hopefully a video.

Third, if you want to install a Team Aftermarket
"Tied Clutch", enter in the search John Deere gator 825i secondary. They forgot to delete this search information and it shows Team Tied clutch for the RZR 570/900 and ACE. You would want the 900 spring set up.

I hope this is helpful.

Last edited by dluck; 06-24-2015 at 06:54 AM.
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post #12 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 07:04 AM
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Just one more thing, I will attach a link to a tuning topic, "CVT 101". When looking at this check out the schematics shown in the illustration. One shows the Polaris 800 secondary, then if you wish, compare that to the schematic of the 2012 JD 825i secondary, they are identical. Link: https://slp.cc/technical/rzr-clutching.pdf
Team Tied secondary: http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-cat...900-ace-940958 * For EBS you would need to purchase a EBS Helix

Part number for 2013 825i John Deere part rapid response primary AM142333

Last edited by dluck; 06-24-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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post #13 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 07:52 AM
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Thanks for the good information dluck. I have encountered some of the pushback from Team that you describe.

I have yet to tear into a secondary clutch. A kind forum member here sent me one for exploratory surgery, so when I get to that point, your info will be very helpful.

Also, I have been confused when reading about clutch changes in an 825i, make for a 50MPH top speed. From everything I have been able to determine with various clutch experiments in my own, the 44MPH seems to be governed by the computer, regardless of the clutch combination installed.

Still more, I would LOVE to get my hands on one of those TEAM aftermarket clutches and take it apart to see if it really does have a better wear fit than the regular off the shelf JD clutches. Honestly, if it does, I will be surprised. I have read that people have had trouble with those also.



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Gator 825i

Last edited by MBDiagMan; 06-24-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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post #14 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBDiagMan View Post
Thanks for the good information dluck. I have encountered some of the pushback from Team that you describe.

I have yet to tear into a secondary clutch. A kind forum member here sent me one for exploratory surgery, so when I get to that point, your info will be very helpful.

Also, I have been confused when reading about clutch changes in an 825i, make for a 50MPH top speed. From everything I have been able to determine with various clutch experiments in my own, the 44MPH seems to be governed by the computer, regardless of the clutch combination installed.

Still more, I would LOVE to get my hands on one of those TEAM aftermarket clutches and take it apart to see if it really does have a better wear fit than the regular off the shelf JD clutches. Honestly, if it does, I will be surprised. I have read that people have had trouble with those also.
I am not sure how they got the 50 MPH in the video. I forgot to mention, in the 2014 Team Aftermarket catalog they clearly stated that the clutch for the 50 MPH speed was the factory 2013 primary. Also, I doubt there is any difference between the Team products and the John Deere clutch, come out of the same factory. The big difference between non-Tied and tied is going to be the action of the helix and how it works in up shifting and back shifting. The 2013 gator 825i secondary is a Team Tied with helix. No doubt the same as the other Team products.

Keep up the good work on the clutches!!! As gator owners we can now finally tune our gators the way we want them, and not the way JD Corporate wants them!
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post #15 of 96 Old 06-24-2015, 10:09 AM
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Thanks for the reply dluck! Somehow I missed in your previous post that you were talking about the secondary clutch.

Again thanks for contributing this information for all of us.



Doc the Clutch Man

Gator 825i
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