John Deere Gator Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sure most of you know by now that the 2013 825i has "dynamic engine braking". I tried to get my dealer to look up the parts to see what I needed to do to upgrade my 2012 825i. He said he would call the area rep and have him find out what I needed. He never got around to it. I contacted Team Industries and discovered it takes a new secondary clutch and, get this, a new transmission input shaft. Why would they change the input shaft? Also Team told me they did not currently sell the clutches and I would have to go through John Deere. I checked back with the dealer, after laying out $17,000 just six months ago for a 2012 Gator 825i, they wanted to charge me suggested retail. We had a discussion and I informaed them how I felt and their comment was, "sorry you feel that way". Any suggestions on a dealer that is more customer friendly. This was Smith Equipment" in Indiana.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Hey that sounds like my local dealer!!! I have not ever been to a "customer friendly" dealer.

Its John Deere. Their way or no way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Does anyone have any idea why the input shaft would be changed just to accomodate a new secondary clutch? Is this John Deere's way of making you trade for a new model rather than upgrade just to get the engine braking? I will install the different input shaft before I do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Or did Team Start building the tranny's and clutches for the 2013 model???

I have excellent luck from Stateline Turf and Tractor in Olive Branch, MS. Good prices, great service, and they always work with deere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I asked TEAM about the input shaft, this is their response.

Sorry. You will have to call your John Deere dealer to find out more information.

Glenn Dohrer
TEAM Industries < Aftermarket
Mail 1637 Dan St Detroit Lakes MN 56501

Fax 218-844-5758

Phone 218-844-3283 extension 6

Mobile N/A



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I have a 2013 and can not see any real difference from the 2012... What have you found out?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I have a 2013 and can not see any real difference from the 2012... What have you found out?
As stated, I have a 2012 and I drove a 2013, there is a huge difference. The 2013 has a tight belt and the primary clutch is different. I have done some research and I have found that the input shaft looks the same but has a different part number, the secondary clutch has the same part number for 2012 and 2013. Since the secondary clutch drives the input shaft, this should be of no consequence. It appears, just from looking at part numbers, you can change the 2012 primary clutch to the 2013 primary and have the dynamic engine braking of the 2013 Gator.
As for the input shaft, it's possible JD has discovered a weakness in the 2012 model shaft and have added some strenght to the 2013 shaft.

2012 input shaft-MIU801672
2013 input shaft-MIU802473
2012 primary clutch-AM137721
2013 primary clutch-AM142333
2012 secondary clutch-AM141396
2013 secondary clutch-AM141396

The part numbers should explain everything. If you want the new clutch for your 2012 825i, then change to the 2013 primary clutch.
There is one varible, engine RPM at idle. Is there a difference in idle speed between the 2012 and 2013 models? Since the primary disengages just above idle, there might be a need to do some electronic adjustments.

The belt number is also the same for both years.
I have not changed my primary yet but will be doing so in the near future. I have been busy working on getting my toy hauler ready for the Gator and the road. Had to put on a new set of tires and also had to remove the rear dinnette. The dinette, even in the raised position would not allow the Gator to be loaded. Problem has been solved and I have hauled the Gator a short distance and it's a great fit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I just checked the price on the 2013 primary clutch assembly and retail is $306.25. Installation is straight forward but I believe you need a puller to get the old clutch off.

I'll be ordering one soon and will let you know the results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I just ordered the AM142333 and should have it in a week. However I was reading John Deere's website and they state: "The engine braking system utilizes a tight belt for operation, requiring an idler sleeve on the primary clutch for neutral. The secondary clutch is a new build on shaft design that utilizes a cam to tune the acceleration and deceleration of the vehicle. The clutch will stay engaged, providing deceleration until approximately 4.83 km/h (3 mph)."

I just confirmed that the secondary clutch is what handles the engine braking. That has to change (John Deere's part#'s must be incorrect) and the input shaft has to be changed. So all three parts have to change.

My understanding is that the Primary clutch change was to increase speed to 48MPH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
I just installed the newer primary clutch along with the belt on my 2011, It has smoother acceleration, and deaccelation, Doesn't have the free wheeling noise like before. Overall it is just smoother, Even the wife noticed it when we were driving around timber sucking down some suds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I just ordered the AM142333 and should have it in a week. However I was reading John Deere's website and they state: "The engine braking system utilizes a tight belt for operation, requiring an idler sleeve on the primary clutch for neutral. The secondary clutch is a new build on shaft design that utilizes a cam to tune the acceleration and deceleration of the vehicle. The clutch will stay engaged, providing deceleration until approximately 4.83 km/h (3 mph)."

I just confirmed that the secondary clutch is what handles the engine braking. That has to change (John Deere's part#'s must be incorrect) and the input shaft has to be changed. So all three parts have to change.

My understanding is that the Primary clutch change was to increase speed to 48MPH
The part number came from John Deere's web site for the 2012-2013 825i, so?
One thing for sure, I won't be changing the input shaft, major undertaking. My Gator stays engaged until 3 mph now, and the difference when I drove the 2013 was significant. It stayed engaged until it was almost stopped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Keep an eye on Polaris and their advertisement. Team builds their clutches as well and if they make changes, more information might be reveled. I have found that JD isn't very fourth-coming when it comes to providing the customer and public with information. I've been through this with my dealer and trying to just find out what the changes were.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I actually spoke to Team who gave me the information. They specifically told me ahead of time, that they had a confidentiality agreement with John Deere and they could only discuss a few things. One of them, Input shaft has to change and the second the secondary clutch is what does the engine braking.

He said they have the primary clutch for sale, it is 299.99 and that will increase speed to 49.8 MPH, reduce the harsh shifting and be smoother overall.

The Belt is the same so I believe it is just the design of the primary clutch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I actually spoke to Team who gave me the information. They specifically told me ahead of time, that they had a confidentiality agreement with John Deere and they could only discuss a few things. One of them, Input shaft has to change and the second the secondary clutch is what does the engine braking.

He said they have the primary clutch for sale, it is 299.99 and that will increase speed to 49.8 MPH, reduce the harsh shifting and be smoother overall.

The Belt is the same so I believe it is just the design of the primary clutch
What design reason would require them to change the input shaft? I can think of none, but then they are the engineers. I have a nagging feeling they
don't want owners of older (2012) Gators to be able to retrofit the engine braking parts. Especially considering the effort I have put into trying to get information from JD on this subject, with no results. This information seems to be top secret. Top speed of the new 825i's is still advertised at 44 mph.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I wanted to give everyone an update. I finally received the clutch AM142333. Overall the clutch is exactly the same as the older clutch with the addition of a "Roller Bearing". Basically installation was straight forward. I made my own tool as the John Deere tool is on back order for quite some time. The dealer said they are waiting as well for one.

After installation, the shifter was smoother to operate and the RPM's dropped by a couple hundred. The belt noise was greatly reduced when coming to a stop and the gator was smoother on acceleration.

I did not notice any engine braking or increased speed. The speed limiter kicked in at 44 MPH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
It's been awhile but recently I started digging for more information. I still believe that Polaris and JD XUV parts might just be interchangeable. I went to "Team's" website and entered "2013 John Deere Gator XUV secondary clutch" This gave me 100 results, which included the secondary driven unit for the Polaris 570 Ranger "with EBS". Here is the link TEAM Aftermarket | Parts and clutches for ATV, Snowmobile, Golf, UTV and motorsports

This is specific part I was referring to:
http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-ca...-clutch-polaris-rzr-570-ranger-900-ace-940958 This part is listed as the Polaris EBS secondary clutch when I did a search for that part.

Check it our and see what you think. I am going to call Team and ask them if that part will fit my gator. Will they lie to me???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I have re-registered as luckydog but was previously dluck. I sold my Gator due to the issues with the engine braking and purchased a 2015 Ranger 570 (44 HP) full size. The engine braking is much better on the ranger even though, it is also made by team industries. I can go downhill down to the point that the speedometer doesn't read any speed and the clutch stays engaged. However, it is still not a great design and eventually will disengage. Just for information, Duraclutch is making a new clutch for the Polaris UTV's and it works like the Yamaha clutch, runs a tight belt and stays engaged down to a stop. Much smoother operation. It has clutch discs built into the primary clutch which eliminates the need for any slack in the belt. You might give Duraclutch a call and see if their products will fit on the gators.

Just for information, the Gator is still the best built UTV hands down. However I had so many issues with trying to get information from the dealer, who only wanted me to trade for a newer model, I gave up. I just felt that having engine braking was too important if you run a lot of hilly terrain, which I do. Having said this I am very happy with the Ranger, top speed is 50 MPH, hits the rev. limiter at this speed. I was able to purchase a new Ranger with enclosed cab, power windows in the doors, sliding back glass for $14,000, then added a six foot Denali snow plow, which it handles very well. The Duraclutch is $1,199 but I am ordering one just because it makes the UTV a complete package. The Ranger is NOT as well built but, it is more than enough for me as I only use it to ride and haul firewood. You guys still have a great forum.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top